From the information given in OP's latest post, it appears that there is no mention of a pre 88 GMP on the Statement of Deferred Benefits from CSC.

This could indicate that the Wright Pension was not contracted out but was a CIMP scheme.

This could indicate that in effect, the transfer value of the Wright pension (the so called AVC), is being used to frank the post 88 GMP on the Lucas/CSC pension?

At age 65, the "AVC" will first be applied to securing the revalued post 88 GMP with the balance being treated as the excess?

This would mean that in payment, the CSC scheme would have to index link the revalued post 88 GMP up to 3% CPI and the balance by scheme rules?

Again, this is a best guess because like hyubh, I am not over familiar with private schemes.

There is some information here https://ompensions.co.uk/media/255935/kb-franking.pdf

about franking.

And have you obtained a new state pension statement?


I've never seen a situation in which a DC transfer in is used to offset the scheme pension accrued under its own right. I would be surprised if this were legal.

That's not to say I won't be surprised, but...

The OP worked for Wright between 83/4 and 1990 and was a member of the pension scheme.

I can't make out whether the Wright Scheme was contracted in or contracted out, (COSR, COMP, or CIMP) and the OP has no record.

At all events, in 1990, he transferred his Wright pension to Lucas (which appears to have provided a COSR scheme) on the terms described in post 5 above in 1990.

If there was a pre/post 88 GMP in the Wright scheme, then one would have expected the Lucas Scheme to have taken on the responsibility for it?

Lucas TUPED to CSC in 1996 and the OP left the company shortly afterwards.

However, the statement from CSC shows no reference to pre 88 GMP.

Although the OP has been told that his Wright pension is separately accounted for as an "AVC" he is also being told that he cannot take it separately from the main pension since it is providing an underpin for the CSC pension.

Therefore it is "franking" the post 88 GMP in CSC and any part of the "AVC" not used for this will be added to the excess and provide standard CSC benefits?

Presumably Mercer will clarify in response to a direct request from the OP.

The OP's NI record might also throw some light?


Thanks for further feedback

Its all going over my head a bit now so i will draft an email to Mercer and report back on here.

To xylophone : Yes i have had a pretty recent state pension forecast and on track for full pension, my retirement date is July 2026 when i will be 66 +7 months.


They seem to be describing a defined benefit scheme with money purchase underpin.

Covered in link in 3 above and mentioned by OP in 6.

How did you accumulate the AVCs?

As far as I can make out, the OP didn't accumulate AVCs as such.

What seems to have happened is that the whole of the pension transferred from the Wright Scheme ( employment 1983/84 - 1990) into the Lucas (TRW) Scheme, (the "Transfer Account" see post 5 above and TRW link in post 7) is now described by the OP (or Mercer?) as an AVC fund?

The whole was TUPED to CSC.

It appears that this fund is being used (in the first instance) to support the post 88 GMP in the Lucas/CSC deferred pension ( see post 10 and 11 above).

No doubt Mercer will clarify and I'm hoping the OP will come back with the answer.

Hi again.

Dont worry i will definitely update thread with any feedback that i get from Mercer ( emailed them yesterday evening )

I dont ever remember contributing to an AVC when i worked for Wright Air Conditioning, i must have just joined the company pension scheme, but what type of scheme it was, i cannot remember..

It only became referred to as an AVC, once i started receiving statements from


An extra bit of info i found when looking thru paperwork, was that the pension scheme transfer was from WHEWAY PLC - from distant memory, this must have been the parent company of Wright Air Conditioning, does this help with traceability etc.

Thanks again for all the input, it really is appreciated - it maybe that everything is above board, but this just smells wrong.




In 1987 Wheway PLC's entry into the environmental fields of Clean Air and Environmental Engineering was initiated by the acquisition of the Wright Air Conditioning Group.

The fact that there was a PLC involved inclines me to think that the Wright Scheme may well have been a COSR.

If so, I am wondering where the pre 88 GMP/excess is accounted for? Unless of course, the so called AVC is covering that (although there is no mention of it)?

Since you appear not to have paid in then it does look like one of the uncommon DB with DC underpin schemes, working just as those do.

Covered in link in 3 above and mentioned by OP in 6.
Originally posted by xylophone

Post 6 seems not to know that there is such a thing as DB with DC underpin. Which is part of why I gave the same link as in post 3 and asked the questions about how the AVC pot arose. Answering the question in post 6, yes, the DC pot can vanish in such a scheme because it's the better of the two values that you'd get, not both.

It'll be interesting to read what Mercer says.


Post 6 seems not to know that there is such a thing as DB with DC underpin.

The OP says in post 6

FRom reading the link that xylophone provided :

My understanding is that an "underpin" serves as an alternative to your "main pension" and the one that gives the best end result is selected -

Whenever you draw your pension benefits you will get the better of:

a ‘defined benefit’ element of the pension scheme

a ‘money purchase’ element of the pension scheme

The link says

What is a defined benefit scheme with a money purchase underpin?

In its simplest format, a defined benefit scheme with a money purchase underpin provides you with two alternative pension options from the same pension scheme.

He seemed to be citing the above?

But as you say, it will be interesting to read Mercer's explanation.

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